Translation Problems with regard to Hell
Now, for the sake of those reading who might be offended by my spending most of my time being critical of certain predominant religious traditions here in the west, I will refrain from mentioning in this post which predominant religious tradition was exclusively involved in the translation of the NIV.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
according to the NIV:
They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power
And according to the NKJV:
These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power
I believe it was in a lecture I heard by Fr. Thomas Hopko wherein he says the NKJV clearly has the translation right. There is nothing in the greek, I am told...for my own Greek is about as useful as a Prayer Rope in a protestant worship service...oh crud, sorry....anyway, there is nothing in the greek to indicate "shut out from the presence of"
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http://www.orlapubs.com/AR/R143.html
Some instances where the topic comes up:
“The holy and inspired Scriptures are fully sufficient for the proclamation of the truth.” St. Athanasius, Against the Heathen, I:3
“Regarding the things I say, I should supply even the proofs, so I will not seem to rely on my own opinions, but rather, prove them with Scripture, so that the matter will remain certain and steadfast.” St. John Chrysostom, Homily 8 On Repentance and the Church, p. 118, vol. 96 FOTC
"Let the inspired Scriptures then be our umpire, and the vote of truth will be given to those whose dogmas are found to agree with the Divine words." (St. Gregory of Nyssa: On the Holy Trinity, NPNF, p. 327). (4th Century)
"We are not entitled to such license, I mean that of affirming what we please; we make the Holy Scriptures the rule and the measure of every tenet; we necessarily fix our eyes upon that, and approve that alone which may be made to harmonize with the intention of those writings." St. Gregory of Nyssa, On the Soul and the Resurrection (NPNF II, V:439) (4th Century)
“We must neither doubt nor hesitate respecting the words of the Lord, but be fully persuaded that every word of God is true and possible, even if nature rebel; for therein is the test of faith.” St. Basil the Great, Rule 8 of The Morals (p. 81, vol 9 TFOTC)
“We must not rely on our own reasoning to the point of rejecting the words of the Lord; but we must be convinced that the Lord’s words are more worthy of credence than our own fullest knowledge.” Basil the Great, Rule 8 of The Morals (see above)
“What is the mark of a faithful soul? To be in these dispositions of full acceptance on the authority of the words of Scripture, not venturing to reject anything nor making additions. For, if ‘all that is not of faith is sin’ as the Apostle says, and ‘faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God,’ everything outside Holy Scripture, not being of faith, is sin.” Basil the Great, The Morals, p. 204 see above.
“But if ‘the Lord is faithful in all his words,’ and ‘all his commandments are faithful, confirmed for ever and ever, made in truth and equity’ to delete anything that is written down or to interpolate anything that is not written amounts to an open defection from the faith and makes the offender liable to a charge of contempt. For our Lord Jesus Christ says: ‘My sheep hear my voice,’ and before this, He said: ‘But a stranger they follow not but fly from him because they know not the voice of strangers.’ And the Apostle, using a human parallel, more strongly forbids adding to or removing anything from Holy Writ in the following words: ‘ yet a man’s testament if it be confirmed, no man despiseth or addeth to it.” St. Basil the Great, Concerning Faith, p. 59 (Vol 9 TFOTC)
“We are not content simply because this is the tradition of the Fathers. What is important is that the Fathers followed the meaning of the Scripture.” [St. Basil the Great, On the Holy Spirit, Chapter 7, par. 16 - this cannot be understood, of course, to ignore his words later in the book on the unwritten tradition!]
For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless you receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning, but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures. (Catechetical Lectures, IV:17, in The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers [Grand Rapids, Michigan: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1983 reprint], Second Series, Volume VII, p. 23.) (4th Century)
2 Thessalonians i. 9, 10.
"Who shall suffer punishment, even eternal destruction from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His might, when He shall come to be glorified in His Saints, and to be marveled at in all them that believed."
THERE are many men, who form good hopes not by abstaining from their sins, but by thinking that hell is not so terrible as it is said to be, but milder than what is threatened, and temporary, not eternal; and about this they philosophize much. But I could show from many reasons, and conclude from the very expressions concerning hell, that it is not only not milder, but much more terrible than is threatened. But I do not now intend to discourse concerning these things. For the fear even from bare words is sufficient, though we do not fully unfold their meaning. But that it is not temporary, hear Paul now saying, concerning those who know not God, and who do not believe in the Gospel, that "they shall suffer punishment, even eternal destruction. How then is that temporary which is everlasting? "From the face of the Lord," he says. What is this? He here wishes to say how easily it might be. For since they were then much puffed up, there is no need, he says, of much trouble; it is enough that God comes and is seen, and all are involved in punishment deed will be Light, but to others vengeance.